Behind the lab coat: Oliwia Zawadzka on apprenticeships in physics

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:00:02

People don't want to talk about things if that's not what they believe in. And like the people that I had around me who pushed for university, didn't want to answer about apprenticeships.

Ask the difficult questions, get the answers, push for what you want. If this is what you want to find out if, this is what you want to do, push for it.

Jacob Butler: 00:00:26

Welcome to People Doing Physics. The podcast explores the personal side of physics of the Cavendish Laboratory at the University of Cambridge.

Hello, I'm Jacob Butler from the Outreach Office.

Charlie Walker: 00:00:37

And I'm Charlie Walker, an astronomer at the Cavendish.

Jacob Butler: 00:00:47

This month we are joined by Oliwia Zawadzka, a research lab technician here at the Cavendish. Olivia grew up in Poland before moving to the UK aged nine.

Dropped in the deep end, she spent the next few years learning English just in time to sit her exams. Despite doing well, she decided the typical path through university wasn't for her and set about finding apprenticeships that suited.

This brought her to the Cavendish where she started as a laboratory technician apprentice, helping technicians in their work, supporting the research of the department.

Today we'll talk about where her time as an apprentice has taken her, what it's like telling Cambridge academics what to do, her work around the university to bring awareness to the programs available, and her advice to anyone thinking about following a similar path. Stay with us.

Charlie Walker: 00:01:35

So thanks for joining us today, Oliwia, and as ever, we'll start at the beginning.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:01:40

Yeah, let's do it.

Charlie Walker: 00:01:41

Could you tell us a little bit about your early childhood?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:01:45

So, early childhood, what kind of age?

Charlie Walker: 00:01:47

You were like from before you came to the uk?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:01:52

So I grew up in the north of Poland, not far from the seaside, probably about 30 minutes. I pretty much lived at the beach at that point. I grew up with my mom, my dad, my sister and my nan. And that is pretty much all from my family side.

I didn't have much interest in science at that point because I was a bit too young to be introduced to it, but I was quite good at maths and I was a bit of a sporty kid.

Charlie Walker: 00:02:20

And so what was it that brought you over to the UK then and your family?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:02:24

So during about what,: 2014

It was quite difficult on the job market and for my quite young parents at the time, because they were about 30, it was very difficult to find a job with two quite young kids, as I do have a now 14 year old sister. So we've got about six year difference. So we're three year old and a nine year old.

It was very difficult to find a job where we could study while my parents worked. So my parents decided to basically pack us up in suitcases and send us.

Charlie Walker: 00:03:06

Not literally, I hope.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:03:07

No, not literally. It would be quite ironic, wouldn't it?

No, but we packed pretty much all of our belongings and we traveled by car for about 20 odd hours between Poland and England.

Charlie Walker: 00:03:21

That must have been an amazing trip.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:03:22

We kind of stayed ever since. I wouldn't say it was an amazing trip, but we did travel through Germany, Belgium, France, all sorts of different things before we got here.

So the views were nice, but the road rage, not so much.

Jacob Butler: 00:03:41

Now, you previously described your early years in the UK as being quite difficult. Could you tell us a bit more about the challenges you faced when you first got here?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:03:48

So when I first got here, one of the main challenges was that I couldn't speak English. And by that I mean absolutely nothing. I had some basics, but realistically, when you go to a different country, you don't get absolutely anything.

The language doesn't make any sense, that people you're trying to talk don't make any sense. So it was really difficult to get situated with some of my interests and finding friends.

While I didn't know the language, it was really difficult to get into studying as well. So I, like you said in my introduction, I learned English just in time for my GCSEs. I didn't speak fluent English until about year nine.

So that's like about four, three, four years.

Jacob Butler: 00:04:37

Yeah.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:04:38

Probably a bit more after I've moved here. So it was quite difficult from the perspective of the language barrier and the people who I couldn't communicate with.

Jacob Butler: 00:04:50

Do you find it was quite a cultural change as well between Poland and the UK?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:04:54

I don't really remember that because at that point I was quite concentrated on surviving. It's hard to notice the cultural changes when everything is kind of flying past you because you don't understand.

Yeah, that's like when you go on a holiday and you're trying to communicate so badly and then you realise that I was doing that every single day for about four or five years. Yeah, it just gets tiring. So you don't notice things flying past you.

So I only started noticing about, let's say, yeah, 11 maybe just as I started sixth form, what the cultural changes were. So I wouldn't say that it affected me much or that I've noticed it.

Jacob Butler: 00:05:38

And how did you find the subjects? Obviously you're being taught in English as well, so entirely foreign language and supposedly being taught new things.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:05:45

Yeah. So just before I moved to England I was meant to go into more like advanced grade.

So think about the jump you have between about year 8 and year 9 or year 9, year 10 when you started your GCSEs and the more advanced stuff come in. I was meant to just about make that jump. So all I knew was the basics before I got here.

Jacob Butler: 00:06:11

So what subjects did you enjoy and not enjoy and how did you define science at school?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:06:15

So starting off, the first things I remember is probably year nine onwards when I actually started being interested in science. Prior to that I was probably more of a mathematics girl, even though I can't look at numbers now because they just don't make sense.

So I would probably say I started off with sports, then went into maths and then realised maths is probably not for me. And then the science kind of part of life began.

I started learning probably about year nine when like all of the English started like clicking in and then it just all kind of made sense.

So probably from there I started with biology mostly and then chemistry and then physics was actually one of the last subjects I learned because I didn't like it very much.

But I didn't have the idea of what actually entailed in physics because when you think of school physics, like lower secondary school physics and actual physics, it is so different and you don't realise how actually interesting it is and what different parts of physics there are and they can connect with biology and chemistry. So I didn't like physics at all. Probably it was the, like my least favorite science at that point. But yeah, probably went from there.

And now I'm a, I wanted to say biologist, but not exactly. Some sort of biological chemical technician of some sort with some biological chemical knowledge. So probably from there onwards.

Charlie Walker: 00:07:56

So I guess as you implied you, you didn't really intend to end up in science as a career. So could you talk us through your GCC and A level subject choices and how you found that?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:08:08

Yeah, so it's not so much that I didn't imply, that I implied that I wasn't going to end up in science.

It was more I implied I wasn't going to end up in physics because realistically I started liking biology and chemistry like I already mentioned, even though I muddled it up completely. But that is mostly what I kind of sit in in the physics department as it is. I, for my GCSes, I've done some oddly weird subjects.

So I've done business studies, media studies, history and Spanish actually. And then my school didn't actually allow me to do separate sciences. So I've done it as a combined course.

So rather than get three grades out of it, I only got two, as all of the sciences were combined. And then for my A levels, I kind of picked out the two sciences that I did somewhat like, which was biology, chemistry, and I did criminology.

And the idea was that I was going to be a criminologist or specifically a pathologist. I was hoping to work with human bodies, and I like the idea of anatomy and how our bodies work.

And I wanted to connect that biology knowledge and interest with the criminology side. But, like my luck would have it, I'm in the physics department. But it's not such a bad thing when you realise what physics actually have.

Like, I'm specialising in physics and medicine. This is where I'm studying, this is where I do my technical jobs. And that's where I'm learning and getting experience in.

So I'm still getting my point of interest, even in physics. So I'm not upset of where I ended up.

Charlie Walker: 00:09:59

And it sounds like your interest in the criminology did tend towards the scientific side of that as well then.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:10:04

Yes, it was more the... I always really enjoyed the biology. Always, like a bunch of working with human bodies.

I knew I probably wouldn't manage to be something like a doctor, but I always liked the idea of studying how our bodies work and what we have in them that makes us humans as it is.

And that's just kind of connected because at that point I needed to look at career paths where I could be for the rest of, like my career that I haven't even begun. At that point, I needed to find a starting point. So, yeah, probably the sires dragged me into crudology as well.

Jacob Butler: 00:10:48

Now, can you tell us a bit about how you discovered apprenticeships and how you learned more about them?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:10:53

So as I mentioned in the previous question, I was looking at beginning my career. I started off as a bartender, obviously while I was studying, as one of my first jobs.

But I knew I wanted to do something more and I wanted to kind of learn. So I ended up finding apprenticeships online.

So one of the main pages that was really helpful was just the government page for apprenticeships that is able to link you with apprenticeships all over the nation, really. But before I found that, I literally started typing into Google. Like, how do I find an apprenticeship?

There was no one around me that was able to tell me how apprenticeships worked.

And because everyone was so centered around university, I had to go in on my own and start researching it and asking the difficult questions that no one really wanted to answer because everyone was so kind of centered around university studies. No one wanted to answer the questions because no one thought it was a good idea to go into an apprenticeship at that point in time.

Jacob Butler: 00:12:06

So think it was that they wanted you to go to university or they thought that was the only route or that they didn't know anything about apprenticeships. They couldn't really comment on them in that respect.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:12:15

I think it's all of it, to be honest. So as I grew up, university was pretty much the only thing that people wanted to do and were kind of striving for.

And if not, it used to be implied that, oh, you would be in customer service your whole life or you would be doing dead end jobs.

So everyone was determined to go to university and probably because of that people were pushing for it and didn't want me doing anything else but a university. So it was probably because of the knowledge. And for example, my family said grew up not knowing anything about it, so they wanted me to do it.

That's what they wanted me to strive for because that's the only thing they knew.

Jacob Butler: 00:12:59

Yeah.

Charlie Walker: 00:13:00

So did you find it was a hard conversation to have with your family as well then?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:13:04

So I was actually a bit of a rebel child and I didn't end up telling them I've applied for apprenticeships. So what I did as a cover-up story is I've applied to university in case something went wrong.

So I went through my UCAS, I got my results and everything. I was just about finishing applying for student loans in case it backfired on me.

And then I went out of my way to apply for apprenticeships and go for my interviews all by myself. So they didn't know about it because they wouldn't have helped me along with it.

Jacob Butler: 00:13:44

Yeah.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:13:44

And then when I actually managed to get it and knew all the benefits of it and knew what I was going to study, I kind of showed up and I was like, I'm not going to a university. So I didn't really have that conversation because I feel like they would try and deter me from it and kind of break my spirit.

So while I still had it, it went out of my way and kind of found it on my own, which probably wasn't the safest, but it worked, it happens.

Jacob Butler: 00:14:14

So what was your experience like applying for the apprenticeship here at Cambridge?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:14:18

So actually that was one of the easier tasks.

There is a Cambridge University jobs page which has all of the apprenticeships when they do come out with the deadlines and requirements and all sorts of different jobs. And I was kind of scrolling through it and I didn't think much of it. I was like, there's no way I'm gonna get it, but I might as well apply.

I've got nothing to lose here. But they were quite communicative and they answered very fast.

And then I ended up going for an interview and it went so quickly I didn't even realise what was happening. Like it only took like maybe a couple of months max for the turnaround and then I was in the job. So I would say it was quite easy to sort out.

Jacob Butler: 00:15:07

Were there any of those you applied for or was it just Cambridge that took your fancy?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:15:10

I've applied for a bunch more realist because realistically I didn't actually think I was gonna get it. And at that point I, because I was doing it on my own, I needed the options, so I needed to try and find different things to pick and choose from.

I couldn't just apply for one and then I would have gotten rejected and that would be that. So I have applied for a bunch. They were all science or laboratory based.

Jacob Butler: 00:15:39

Okay.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:15:40

Because that was kind of my interest. I thought maybe if I start in a lab I would be able to go into criminology as like forensics was kind of the interest biology mix of forensics.

But now I'm kind of happy where I ended up. So, yeah, now I did apply to a bunch more.

Charlie Walker: 00:16:00

And did you find the interview process very different between the apprenticeships and the university interview process?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:16:06

So I haven't actually gone as far as doing an interview for the university. So for apprenticeship it basically looked like a job interview. And yeah, no, I wouldn't really be able to speak on the university applying process.

Charlie Walker: 00:16:27

And so in our previous chat you mentioned that the apprenticeship itself here at Cambridge has involved what seems like everything in physics, from semiconductors to medical physics. So could you tell us a little bit more about what you've been up to over the last couple of years here?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:16:43

So for the past couple of years I've done literally all sorts of things like you just said. Like you started. I started off in a clean room, so where you have to suit up, boot up. And I was doing semiconductor devices.

So I've learned the fabrication process and then I learned how to process them in the assessment lab. So where we put the samples in a cryostat and then checked how it worked, basically whether the electrical connections were fine, bits like that.

And then I decided that really wasn't for me and I needed something more to do with my point of interest, which ended up being physics of medicine. So that's where I kind of started all my biological work. So all my cells and liquid nitrogen training and all sorts of different things.

And when I kind of had that under control, I was also invited to work in the materials science department. I do one day a week with their laboratory manager, who is kind of helping me do my own research on the side.

I've also worked a bit for Henry Royce Institute, so I've been using their equipment for my research and helping maintain it, in the ambient cluster, for example, in Maxwell Centre. But as well as that, I've done a bunch of outreach events. I spoke at Physics at Work on apprenticeships.

I've done some job fairs and a couple of other different bits. So it is literally everything you might think about.

Charlie Walker: 00:18:27

And so would you say the apprenticeship system has been set up in a way that allows you to make those transitions quite easily?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:18:34

So when I began, there wasn't a plan for the apprentices. The university kind of just wanted apprentices, but they didn't know what to do with them.

But within about two years, me and the other apprentices that started at the same time kind of came up with a plan with the management and with the technicians that were joining. As we went on how we wanted to look for new apprentices who they're able to talk to and contact.

So there wasn't a plan when I started, but we kind of constructed that as we went along.

Charlie Walker: 00:19:11

So you're finding that you're sort of setting the template for other people? We phrased the same question in very different ways.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:19:23

Yeah, I would say me and the other apprentice, when we began, we're qualified now, obviously, but when we began, there wasn't a plan, so.

Charlie Walker: 00:19:34

And how would you say you found interacting with other people in the university, staff and students? Have you. Do you want to say a little bit about any teaching you've been doing, for example?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:19:44

So there was only a couple of smaller things that I was teaching. Nothing big or influential, I would say. One of the things I was teaching at a point was a couple of students who were using the assessment lab.

So I was taught how to use the assessment lab after I finished processing my devices in the clean room, so semiconductor devices, and I had to measure the properties of them. And then a couple of students came in and they were speaking with their PIs and they were like, we need someone to teach us.

And because at that point I had some experience and I was trusted enough to do it on my own.

They kind of got set with me and I taught them how to refill the liquid nitrogen and liquid helium and how to run some of the measurements, obviously while being assisted with the professors checking that I'm doing it correctly. So we're all kind of keeping to the safe side of things, but that was pretty much the main thing.

But there are small things that, like if I know how to use a certain machinery and some of the students don't, they are able to ask me. And I've been doing that kind of things. So at one point I had to ask a PI to teach me how to use a cell counter.

It is a very easy thing, but you do need to know how to boot it up. So I was able to go and teach a student while she was doing her summer project, so she was able to use it.

Charlie Walker: 00:21:27

So this skill, this transition from learning to leading, was this something that you were hoping to develop going in? Is this something that they sold to you during interview, or is this something that's happened naturally?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:21:38

I think kind of happened naturally because we were quite understaffed and there just wasn't enough people to cover what needs to be covered. And I don't think it was planned at all. I think it came quite naturally as I am quite outspoken as it is.

So I probably ended up, I don't remember exactly, but I probably ended up offering my help to someone and they were like, okay, you're great, how about you go and do this? And that's probably what ended up happening. So.

Jacob Butler: 00:22:14

Yeah, so as you mentioned earlier, your teachers had no idea what an apprenticeship was. And I think lots of our listeners might be a bit confused as well.

So could you tell, tell us what sort of things you get up to on a day to day or perhaps week by week basis, and whether this sort of style of working and learning suits you better than other ways you learned.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:22:31

So as an apprentice, you get 20% off your work week, which equals to roughly a day on your study. So when I started an apprenticeship, I was doing a Level 3 Applied Science course where my study day was a Wednesday.

So I would come into work on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, and study on Wednesdays and kind of do all sorts of different things. So I concentrate on having my Wednesdays for my study day specifically. But you can actually spread out the hours.

So you are able to do half of a day here, let's say a Tuesday and half on Wednesday when the classes are running. So you can divide that on how it's more comfortable for you. But in my workplace I started off with learning the environment I was in.

I've learned the people I was working with, what kind of different jobs they were doing, what I could learn from them. And I just kind of began by learning little things. So I've got my basic jobs that I do during the week which is feed my cell line.

So when you have cells you need to feed them with this like media that has like I want to call them vitamins but they're not exactly vitamins. It just feeds us like we eat food. They have this media. Yeah that keeps them alive. Keeping your house plant, pretty much that. So I tend to feed them.

I tend to run biological waste, which was one of the first things I've learned. I refill liquid nitrogen if there is a machine machinery failure. I'm also going to assist with that and learn if it's something I'm unaware of.

Jacob Butler: 00:24:26

And so compared to sort of schoolwork, do you find it harder, different? Is it easier? How do you say it compares to what sort of things you were up to in school?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:24:35

So I think because I was studying and working at the same time when I was in sixth form and just at the end of secondary school, I find this a bit easier to balance.

But I've met people where it was really difficult for them to adjust from studying full time to actually working pretty much full time and studying as well as that.

So it depends on the person and the depends on the background they come from because for example, for me it was really easy but for the people around me it was a bit more difficult.

Jacob Butler: 00:25:10

Yeah. So it's very self directed, is it in terms of how you allocate?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:25:13

Yes, pretty much.

Jacob Butler: 00:25:13

So anything sort of school in general prepares people well for that sort of working or do you think it's too useful?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:25:22

I don't think it's very useful. Personally I don't.

In school you can prepare as much as you want, but it doesn't prepare you for real life scenarios and how you actually have to apply to managing your time. Because realistically in college, let's say you're doing three courses or if you're very smart, you're doing four maybe.

And I think you have about four or five hours per subject per week. So if you're doing three subjects that's about 12 to 15 hours. An actual working week is between 36 to about 40 hours.

It is so much harder to navigate working, let's say 37 and a half hours while studying rather than just navigating about 12 during the whole week. Yeah, it is so much harder. So you don't actually realise that. So I don't think anything in school actually prepares you for how big that jump is.

Jacob Butler: 00:26:24

I imagine it's quite a different mindset as well. It's, you know, going from that sort of being purely academic to not. You're not so purely work either. You're doing a bit of a. Yeah, a foot in both.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:26:33

Yes.

Charlie Walker: 00:26:34

And there's this idea of a course being finite, whereas a job goes on forever.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:26:40

Pretty much in the job, let's say you're expecting, okay, this is a permanent position. You just keep on showing up to work and to keep that interesting, you need to add your personal development, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then you have to factor in the time for that as well. So it makes it so much more difficult than just going from studying a few hours and doing something completely else.

You're here pretty much Monday to Friday doing what you need to do.

Charlie Walker: 00:27:09

And yet despite your responsibilities and the learning that you have to do and the personal development, you're also, as you said, actively involved with outreach with the university. So could you tell us a little bit more about what you spent your time doing there?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:27:26

So one of the main events I helped with was Physics at Work and I have actually helped about three times now.

So when I first like started my job, it was about two weeks in and I basically got dumped into helping the outreach team because bear in mind, I started a new full-time job while I'm studying, in Cambridge, and I have not met anyone. So in about two weeks I was told, okay, you're gonna go and help with this.

While I didn't know who I was talking to, where I was going and how was I meant to help someone if I don't know what I'm doing.

Charlie Walker: 00:28:06

But you quickly found out.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:28:08

Very quickly found out. And after that it kind of became a bit easier. I started getting more confident. Yes, I started helping a bit more.

And the year after that, when I felt comfortable enough in my position, I have actually presented on the apprenticeships for Physics at Work and what we kind of things we do in our physics department, which I think was a great success. I ended up getting quite a lot of positive feedback. That was the first time I've done something so big.

I had great feedback from the students, from the teachers or from the staff I was working with and other presenters. So it was quite a nice atmosphere. And I spoke across three days. I spoke to about 550, 600 students. I don't remember the exact number.

So I feel like I was quite influential at that point. And then I just kind of stuck with doing things like that.

Every now and then, if there is a hand needed on an outreach event or just simple cooperation, I'm always in, so.

Charlie Walker: 00:29:18

So have you had any thoughts about going back maybe to your school and presenting there and sharing with them the information that you wish you had had when you were applying for apprenticeships or.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:29:29

I was thinking that, but I don't have any points of contact within my old school.

Also, it is not up to me who the outreach team speaks to, presents to all those things for, so I have suggested it before going a bit further out, rather than just Cambridge and surrounding villages. I'm talking about 15, 20 miles, like Ely, for example, where I went to school. But that is still kind of work in progress.

Jacob Butler: 00:29:59

Just to say we're more than happy to go out to do outreach things as well. We do outreach things for the entirety of the uk.

We have people come from all over, so we're certainly happy to work with people from Ely and even further afield. So anyone interested as well do let us know.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:30:13

However, what you were referring to is probably something like Physics at Work and like Isaac Physics doing partnerships and stuff, but that's people coming to Cavendish as it is.

Jacob Butler: 00:30:25

Yeah.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:30:26

So it's a bit different going out to schools as a department thing.

Jacob Butler: 00:30:31

Yeah.

Charlie Walker: 00:30:34

And so you mentioned Isaac Physics. We had an interesting episode on that, a couple of episodes back with Lisa Jardine. Right, quick plug there.

But in our earlier chat, you mentioned that you'd taken part making a video that was due to be released soon. What is this going to cover and where will people be able to find it when it is released?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:30:53

So this video is with HR apprenticeships, who are basically overseeing all of the apprentices in the university, not just the physics department. We are currently in progress of, like, making all of the scripts. We haven't started the recording yet.

This is hopefully going to come out in time for the National Apprenticeships Week, which I believe is next year, about February time. Please don't hold me to that as a durable. Exactly.

But it will basically have of what is an apprenticeship, what different pathways you can have, whether this is a technical pathway, for example, like me in physics, a HR pathway or a business pathway. All sorts of different things. So what it entails progression of the apprenticeships within the university.

I believe it's also going to COVID support and we are hoping to have a special guest at the end as well to tie the video. So when this comes out. We are hoping to have it on there main Cambridge University apprenticeships page.

And this will be available internally and externally to our staff and everyone around us.

Jacob Butler: 00:32:18

Excellent. And I'm sure we can add a link to that in the show notes as well. So anyone who's listening to this can. Can find information there.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:32:25

Absolutely. So when it comes out, I will make sure to forward it to you so we can add in.

Jacob Butler: 00:32:30

Lovely. And so what's the future hold for you and how do you see these apprenticeship schemes evolving in the future?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:32:36

So I don't know what the future is holding for me. I'm so open to new adventures and opportunities that I have no clue where I'm going to be in a couple of years or even next week.

Like, I could be doing all sorts of different things, so I'm letting myself enjoy where I am and kind of take whatever comes. But for apprenticeships, I think it's going to grow, I think it's going to gain importance.

And since about: 2018

Jacob Butler: 00:33:22

Do you feel like the university has a better idea of what to do with their apprentices now as well?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:33:26

I can't speak for the whole university as it is, but I feel like our department has grown massively since having apprentices and we are able to kind of direct them a bit more. So I would say that department itself does know what to do now and has a better plan than they did when it kind of began.

Jacob Butler: 00:33:49

Excellent.

Charlie Walker: 00:33:50

And so, finally, to finish, do you have any advice for those who might be listening and contemplating taking up on an apprenticeship?

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:33:58

I think one of the advices would be just to ask the difficult questions. Like I have mentioned previously in one of the questions, people don't want to talk about things if that's not what they believe in.

And like the people that I had around me who pushed for university, didn't want to answer about apprenticeships. Ask the difficult questions, get the answers, push for what you want.

If this is what you want to find out, if this is what you want to do, push for it. Lovely.

Jacob Butler: 00:34:33

Well, thank you very much for your time today. It's been fascinating hearing about what you've been up to and how apprenticeships have changed at the university over the last few years.

And, yeah, thank you again for your time.

Oliwia Zawadzka: 00:34:42

Amazing. Thank you, guys.

Charlie Walker: 00:34:43

Thank you very much.

Jacob Butler: 00:34:47

Thank you to Oliwia for joining us today. As always, if you'd like to learn more about what we discussed in this episode and more generally about our work at the Cambridge Laboratory.

Please have a look at the show notes or go to our website www.phy.cam.ac.uk if you have any questions you would like to ask our physicists, head to social media and tag us with the hashtag #peopledoingphysics. This episode was recorded and edited by Chris Brock. Thank you for listening to people doing physics. We'll be back again next month.